The Trial Of R. Kelly: Reactions To First Two Episodes Of 'Surviving R. Kelly'

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Ebro is back! After last night's premiere of 'Surviving R. Kelly' on Lifetime, the Ebro in the Morning crew breaks down their reactions to the show, and their thoughts on the rumors, allegations, and reports of R. Kelly.
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Publicado el


4 ene 2019

hot97hot97apphip hopNew YorkNYUSUnited StatesHOT97.comEITMR. KellySurviving R. KellyAaliyahEbro in the Morning






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Comentarios 9 975
J.K. Hace 7 horas
I respect the anger of the Orange hat guy. Excellent
T!me Master
T!me Master Hace 8 horas
Not to support r kelly but as big as the world is, we are worrying about a pedophile when there are much more worse situations. This situation honestly is only as big as it is because its r kelly, but if it was an upcoming artist, it wouldnt be as huge
Samuel Little
Samuel Little Hace 9 horas
Ebro takes sexual assault very seriously brahh!
Shaun Reed
Shaun Reed Hace un día
#innocentuntilPROVENguilty Just because U're accused of something doesn't mean U're guilty of it.
JETTABUSY Hace un día
When R Kelly finishes suing everybody the lies will be exposed and the cloud will be lifted
Jay Hood
Jay Hood Hace 2 días
Study your Confederate flag homie dont say dumb stuff
Darin Campbell
Darin Campbell Hace 2 días
I saw that disgusting tape and I have to say that I SMDH when R. Kelly says that it isn't him. Of course it is! There is a part where the young lady is dancing to a song by Backstreet Boys and you hear a voice telling her on how to move. The voice is R. Kelly's! I suppose he would have us believe that that wasn't his voice either! Does he really think that we are all that stupid?
Dakota Williams
Dakota Williams Hace 2 días
The people on Surviving R. Kelly, actually survived R. Kelly. When the women speak, their honesty streams through. Kelly needs to be held accountable.
boomshocka1000 Hace 2 días
Now i understand what he meant by "12 play"
Perry Mason
Perry Mason Hace 2 días
A Beens
A Beens Hace 2 días
“I believe I can fly” is a great uplifting song but just like the rest of his music, it’s totally tainted now. I can never hear him say “feeling on your booty” the same.
uknow me
uknow me Hace 3 días
So he used to and maybe still has a house in the suburbs of Chicago. I lived also in Olympia Fields. I went to the high school and the one of the bus stops was right on the corner of his house. EVERYONE in the police and adults in the neighborhood knew what was going on. They used to tease the kids who got off at that bus stop. Everything they are saying is True. All his dancer and his team knew what was happening. So did his wife.
DnB Soldier
DnB Soldier Hace 3 días
R Kelly is corny af. Every song of his oozes cheese. I don't know how that douche ever had a career.
James Anderson
James Anderson Hace 3 días
I am in no way taking sides because I do not know R-Kelly or the actual facts for the accusations but how come this energy wasn't given to Hugh Hefner? Just curious...
dime droppin
dime droppin Hace 3 días
i can tell by looking a r Kelly hes a pedo.. he just got that look
hybrid8theory Hace 3 días
If you think about it the biggest stars have the biggest sick personalities. R. Kelly (used to be a GOD in the black community, weddings, church, funerals, family reunions all of it done changed the set list now), Cosby, Michael Jackson, Mel Gibson, I'm waiting for Spielberg, Snoop, Lebron, Bruno, Beyonce. All these guys with the worldwide vast fans. Theres just got to be some big reveal somewhere. Its always the megastars.
SLAP HAPPY Hace 3 días
I plea the FiF
Debbie Fogle
Debbie Fogle Hace 4 días
First time watching this crew break down a story of the news. I really enjoyed the professional and personal opinions of each crew member on this show. The turmoil can clearly be seen while dealing with a story such as the R. Kelly allegations. I will watch this show again.
Disvover Naserito
Disvover Naserito Hace 4 días
Everybody behaves like they innocent ... what most of R.Kelly haters will do for a lil stack of money could be way worse than R.Kelly could ever innovate . Kicking a knocked down dude ... wack
KnownGeorgiaBoi Hace 4 días
Tape hit around year 2000.
oldladyfish Hace 4 días
He married Aaliyah she was 14 years old; Fact " At the age of 12, Aaliyah signed with Jive Records and her uncle Barry Hankerson's Blackground Records, Hankerson introduced her to R. Kelly, who became her mentor and lover." They pimped her out! These people knew what he was and how he was around young girls. This is not gossip its a fact. But the music business shut it up really quick; anyone else would have been in jail for statutory rape. So now all of a sudden the entertainment industry is putting the career pedophiles and rapist who got a pass because they have a talent that made money for their studios out in the cold. I ain't buying it. I am sure these movie and music studio have covered up a lot more then just rape and molestation. Their clearing house so they don't go down with the ship. We need to be focusing on the companies and industries that allow this crap to go on and not just the individual.
MoonbearDiedHere Hace 4 días
I'm an adult now but when the tape came out I was a very young child. I didn't understand the full aspect of everything but I knew I didn't think it was okay for someone to pee on someone else. So at parties I would still dance to his music because my mind hadn't yet developed enough to form my own solid opinions about how I want to live my life, the world as a whole and societies. I'm 25 now. I like to DJ and I've never played any of his music and I never will. I don't support men that are knowingly rapist, abusers and misogynists. So it's not just him. I have a list of men that are in different fields or normal people that I don't support because I have core values and beliefs that I stick to. All women are important and I hear these black women. I believe these black women that have been abused.
Ahmad Bolling
Ahmad Bolling Hace 4 días
It's all he say she say!! Everybody is making money off R. Kelly!! Where is the proof?? There is nothing that could keep me from me and mines!! A grown man has my daughter and I will have that man's head!!
Ultimate Man
Ultimate Man Hace 5 días
I guess your money ran out R. Kelly. The Devil is coming for due payment.
Magnificent TKoon
Magnificent TKoon Hace 5 días
Why’re u @ McDonalds?! Lol 😂
Professor Buttons
Professor Buttons Hace 5 días
This comment section restores my belief in my neighbours. 👇🏾Props to the Men/Women/Other’s of tomorrow
Johnny Doe
Johnny Doe Hace 5 días
So why can the jury be Razzle-dazzled...but The powers that be can’t razzle-dazzle the general public???? All you have to do is really listening to what these girls are saying and they’re telling on themselves. the series is full of half truths that make no sense. They try to distract us with soft piano melodies and dark imagery of an empty ass tour bus with no fucking people on it!!!! For instance, Lisa Ann Says that she took the tape that had a threesome of her, Rob and the “14 year old “right? She states that that’s the only tape she took out of a COLLECTION of tapes because it had her name on it, and gave it to someone for her safety. WHO THE HELL IS SOMEONE?? Why won’t you tell us who that is??? But I’ll look pass that.. so, the tape Played in court did not include Lisa, right?? So the question is WHY?? If everybody knew that the girls parents were going to be “paid off” Why didn’t They dig up the tape with the three some on it and Lisa testifies that that IS her and get a conviction???? Because if they have the tape including the “14-year-old” and Kelly by themselves, They didn’t get it from Lisa Ann. She only took the one tape from a COLLECTION remember??? So where are the tapes With all the girls who are willing to testify that that is them??? I’ll wait....Don’t worry I have more. So let’s get to Ms Sparkle...She says everybody knew for years that Kells was a Predator....So why knowing this information would you bring your niece around a guy that you say you knew was this way?????? Once again I’ll wait....
Fred Turner
Fred Turner Hace 5 días
Damn hot 97 views have gone way down i always try watch videos when i got free time.. just noticed like past few months.there you tube views is way down. when R kelly is your most viewed and kodak past 3 months. Wtf huh something funny happening up hot 97 im still do what i do keep up with them i like content just dont get why drastic drops in the views.
Chris Belton
Chris Belton Hace 6 días
He couldn’t separate it with ye tho👀👀
Vic Falls
Vic Falls Hace 6 días
R Kellys music is amazing. His actions according to these women, men, marrying lol Aaliyah? Not acceptable
CycleCruza Hace 6 días
Don't forget "In 1990, 16-year-old Garcia met Prince backstage in Barcelona after he saw a tape of her dancing. According to Garcia, she soon moved into his Paisley Park home and he became her guardian." - Wikipedia Also, add Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis , Wood Allen, etc, etc to the list.
Jeremi Lewis
Jeremi Lewis Hace 6 días
Can we lock him up without throwing away the music??
Cole S
Cole S Hace 6 días
R Kelly did nothing wrong. Nothing but “safe” takes coming out.
Mandy Thomas
Mandy Thomas Hace 6 días
I think a lot of people don't wanna see it going on
M U N C H News
M U N C H News Hace 7 días
kelly grew up in church unfortunately in the black church if kelly was an actual preacher he would have been crucified by now, however when it came to singers in the church they always got a pass no matter how promiscuous or worldly they were it was always frowned upon but nobody would ever do anything serious to a singer because they were so relied upon each week. Singers especially in the black community have always been given a pass because their voices excuse their behaviour...and it's deceptive .. how can someone sing like an angel and actually be a devil? (people forget Lucifer's first job was to sing)
Anderson Daspider Silva
You are innocent until proven guilty
Tim Winchester
Tim Winchester Hace 7 días
Niggas cant even see the trend going on it's super sad.. smh
LoveliAngelVibes Hace 7 días
“Everyone needs to be in jail that helped him”. Of course that’s the entire Music and Film industry. Wait til you see what’s next.
LoveliAngelVibes Hace 7 días
Hung out with Rkelly. Love him...but he does need help. Mental.
Chico Chico
Chico Chico Hace 7 días
These dudes are wack. . Just Wanna put the Man down because Its trending and seems like the right thing to say. ... There is no Proof of Any of These alligations. With that said i need Proof other than the marriage to ailayiah Which she nor her parents said anything
Chris c
Chris c Hace 7 días
As they whole rocking triple 6 on there ears
miguel santiago-davis
Listen its not Becky,yes he is a perv yes he should be in jail but white people dont care nothing for black women,this is wound that wont heal and black women need to stop supporting him and going to his concerts and telling going to concerts saying they want be hostages until then nothing. Will happen.
Avril Miller
Avril Miller Hace 7 días
@theDJ Ok so you would have no problem with a black person being entertained by antisemitic comedy, music or performances. No the parents of aaliyah did not approve that's why she got divorced and the music and relationships ties ended.
Sare Bear
Sare Bear Hace 7 días
This all makes me sick, lock him up. Nobody cares about him anymore.
Wesley Andries
Wesley Andries Hace 8 días
But everyone gives Kodak black a pass also...... R kelly selling more music then ever...... What's going on with today's people man... Wtf😮
apoclypse Hace 8 días
I knew R.Kelly was trash back when that tape came out. Anyone who said that wasn't him wasn't either dumb or blind. It was him win that tape 100%. That being said I wish is one of my favorite songs of all time. The man has genius music. Which completely sucks, it's conflicting as a human being.
Miss Brainwash
Miss Brainwash Hace 8 días
don't you think banning r. kelly's music is a violation of his freedom of speech regardless of what crimes he may have committed? this is where liberal and progressive ideas start not making sense.
David Ashley
David Ashley Hace 8 días
Watch how Ebro just did the MEAN PIVOT...they were tal;ing about MUSIC, brought up by him THEN he cut PR off and went right into the other thing. Make up your mind fam lol
anelchaidez76 Hace 8 días
I will never stop playing his music! Either should you! His talent is what I listen too! Now in my opinion if what they say is true he would or should be locked up. Yet if its not... the parents or money hungry ppl should be held accountable as well!!!
Pootjuice Hace 8 días
..I’m still wondering why R Kelly out here free but Bill Cosby in jail?
Angel Adams
Angel Adams Hace 8 días
This man has been through People should pray for him. God is going to judge all. Y'all don't know. Pi eopke want money. But God know. Who are y'all to judge are trash him. Would you want Gid to judge you. You going by hear say. If you don't know be quiet. Y'all Headed but don't know. God is going to judge. God got this
Betty Woods
Betty Woods Hace 8 días
Kelly not first and not going to be last.god is for giving God judge us. Kelly has big problems he needs help he sick with addiction just like drug addiction only his sex. There more sickness dog out there.i just pray for them.
Betty Woods
Betty Woods Hace 8 días
There meny meny more mens out there like R Kelly, just haven't came out yet. First it Bill Cosby, now there more just wait see.
betty powell
betty powell Hace 8 días
Things should have been done in 1996 when a lot of mess was coming to the forefront. Robert Kelly was a hot mess back then and a hot mess now. Shame on him and all others involved. I make a matter of prayer that these parents were not making money off of their daughters and now that they are broke that they are broke trying to make more. The reason I say this is because why would they take their story to Lifetime instead of law.
Aleasha Abbas
Aleasha Abbas Hace 8 días
Well through art, antiquity, and international law the artifacts of all things related can be pulled. Interpol Police are real. Thank you.
Marcus Powell
Marcus Powell Hace 8 días
What happened to Bill Cosby is coming to R Kelly real soon.
darnisha simms
darnisha simms Hace 8 días
Did tape came out long before then because me and my man was looking at the tape online around 2006
darnisha simms
darnisha simms Hace 8 días
When he was with Aaliyah I was all for it but that's because I was younger to her I was 14 and I thought her people let that go on. And I wanted to be with him around the age. But my mama wouldn't let that happen now literally. But I didn't think that it was about the age part I always thought that he just loved her and that's why. Hey tell all these people came out with their stories. And then I have a daughter I will miss the person up literally. And I named my daughter Aaliyah
darnisha simms
darnisha simms Hace 8 días
I like his music I still going to play it but him being messy like that I condemn that
pj's love
pj's love Hace 8 días
Love yourself people.....thats how you become less of a victim & become victorious........& i didnt doubt the abusers but now i do see i needed to separate the genius from the sick & demented.
Bkeast Smith
Bkeast Smith Hace 8 días
How TF could you separate the art from the person when in this mfs songs he's talking about wtf he's doing foh ebro
Blue Indigo
Blue Indigo Hace 9 días
Wonder why his music streams increased since the documentary? The core of R. Kelly's support comes from black women/women of color...always has and always will. Incredibly ironic indeed. Many of them (most of those supporters) have proclaimed their support for him, even after these reports...and they have vowed to continue to support him and to buy & play his music. The "black community" has to come to terms with that. I predicted that this would be the case. So-called "Black America" has a moral deficit. Money, fame, and the badboy image in particular are things that most black women can't resist...and most would trade their souls to get it. This is a subject that the media won't tackle because it's just too taboo. But other black women can tackle it. But the question is....will they? Sadly....I don't think that will happen.
P fields
P fields Hace 9 días
Ebro Soft shoeing for Massa hard
Indigo Indigo Bae
Indigo Indigo Bae Hace 9 días
People who still sing RKelly’s praises, (JayZ, and other trash bucket artists) are being willfully ignorant. No one is without sin...you must take a look at the weight of those sin. The length of time and the long list of otracities made by RKelly...all this time; come on now. Snap out of it. If we continue to support people with these issues after its been publicly revealed, we only aid and abed these sick folk. For those of you who still say you REALLY “love” RKelly like that? *MUTE him. Hitting his pockets and his ego is a start to help him see that his actions are hurting a community. It can lead to a STOP on his pedophilia, where he has a history of destroying our young and older women’s lives. This can lead to seeing that he gets the mental wellness help he desperately needs. Please don’t be one of those people that does nothing bc it doesn’t directly effect you personally.
Ken Allen
Ken Allen Hace 9 días
Rein 18
Rein 18 Hace 9 días
Omg ppl shut up 😆.....wat else is on?? Oh look there's are hungry ppl in that town, oh look at them homeless families, oh look at the dying children.......
Rein 18
Rein 18 Hace 9 días
Shut up.......😆
jeffery greenacre
jeffery greenacre Hace 9 días
R. Kelly is NOT a genius. His music is the r&b equivalent of Creed or Nickelback. Lyrically, his songs are on a 3rd grade level.
Ellery Temple
Ellery Temple Hace 2 días
lyrically it's trash. the genius was the sound and hope it's able to appeal to so many people. this pedo had songs like "i believe i can fly" and stuff that's played in schools, weddings, etc. and the whole time he's a pedo. so sad and sickening
Mz Parker
Mz Parker Hace 9 días
Remember in the song Vibe he said Sweet Little Aaliyah's got it bruh in 93 she was 13 he has never been shy about it.
Debbie Edwards
Debbie Edwards Hace 9 días
There is no counselling this character disorder out of a person ... EphebophIlia ... Do you separate other pedophiles from their "art" too ? Nope .... no you do not !
daVideoGamer Hace 9 días
He should have been locked up when he sang I don't see nottin wrong...
richard commons
richard commons Hace 9 días
DO THEY HAVE A TAPE, wHERE SOMEONE FROM THE DOCUMENTARY KNOCKS ON HIS DOOR, SEND LETTERS OF INTERVIEW REQUEST ect Offer Him a chance to dispute .. This gonna come down to. DATES AND TIMES & LOCATIONS. THE TRUTH ALWAYS LEAVES A PATTERN,, A LIE LEAVES A TRAIL. WHAT IF A JURY COMES BACK NOT GUILTY. !!! lets allow a jury do what they do if it comes to that, why after all these years, why not exposure before he became wealthy?? IF TRUE IT GOES BACK YEARS before he walked onto the world stage. wtH. HOW DARE PPL, pass judgment about this. (I know I/ME) wasn't there,) Only the PPlL that were there and are willing to come forward with facts that can be demonstrated. Ok RK can bump but all the bumps are about the same tone area. Until there is ABSOLUTE PROOF, IN AN OPEN LEGAL FORUM & THE JURY CONVICTS ?? I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT DUDE DID, AS THAT IS NOT MY JOB, IM GONNA TRUST THE JURY THAT GETS TO SEE AND STUDY EVERY PIECE OF THIS MATTER. JUST PLAY BY THE RULES FIRST. ONCE HE IS CHARGED ??? it won't matter what it is, he must convince a jury that he should not go to jail or is not directly responsible for any of the offered incidents. WOW ALL THE PPL SPEAKING about something they overheard from other ppl that weren't there but got it from a reliable source LOL THOSE PPL ALL HAVE DIFFERENT AGENDAS, IF THEY ARE GONNA NOW COME FORWARD: THERE SHOULD BE LEGAL DOCUMENTS SIGNED AS IF ( if ) the jury comes back or the defense, his lawyers should have to right to regain loses their client may have suffered?? besides the trial HAS NOT 1! PERSON EVERY WENT TO THE POLICE, AND IF HE WAS THAT (BIZY ) WHO WAS HIS HELPERS. IF HE WAS DOING THIS, SOMEONE HE EMPLOYED MAY KNOW, PRO OR CON & THIS PERSON Presents WITH CLEAN HANDS? THEN THAT MAY BE A BASE TO BUILD A SOLID CASE ON. but ppl are humans, No person on Earth is PERFECT. ( just saying )
Lebo Magano
Lebo Magano Hace 9 días
JuSt wondering which pedophile is next. Smh
Phillip Boudreaux
Phillip Boudreaux Hace 9 días
Kelly will always be a Legend no matter what they try to say about him
Dianne S
Dianne S Hace 9 días
Everyone knew he was a pedophile, and did NOTHING sine the 90s
Mark Jackson
Mark Jackson Hace 9 días
I actually respect they're having the fricken Conversation,..they weren't loud enough back then. But if you saw those videos (back then), not sure how you didn't see the darkness? They're probably unavailable now because they're "Child PORN". Think about that!! You can't LEGALLY and for sometime (guessing since the 1960s) morally have consensual "Relations" with an underaged person. The Alyiah issue alone puts it in perspective.
Jim Hace 9 días
so what is this about? Stilla bout him pissing on some girls or something like that?
꧁Ms. Essance TV꧂
★ 🎀 𝐿💕𝓋𝑒𝒹 𝒾𝓉❢ 𝐸𝓍𝒸𝑒𝓁𝓁𝑒𝓃𝓉 𝓋𝒾𝒹𝑒😱❢ 🎀 ★
Tony Grooove
Tony Grooove Hace 9 días
Easily the best R&B artist of the last 30 years...I'm still kickin his joints.
MARCELXP1000 Hace 9 días
Damn I was just born when this happened
Ese Egbe
Ese Egbe Hace 9 días
The world of global entertainment and music, especially the American version is one heck of a world of debauchery in all its forms and definition full of all freaks and weirdos imaginable. But when it comes to another high profile black man in R Kelly suddenly they demand a never-touched-a-woman clean soul. And also suddenly, the same media that has been muted and developed speak-up anoxeria when blacks were being unjustly murdered in cold-blood in their numbers by law enforcement agents in American are now the ones leading the charge of hate the monster. And you see especially the same black people lined-up on the que prepared for them to hate on one of their own without the slightest doubt. Sometimes when one look at all these charade of hate R Kelly bandwagon objectively, and many people still can not see through it all, then it begs to ask the question, would Kanye have been right when he said 400 years of slavery...for that long...it pretty much looks and sounds like it's by choice? Because all these black people's seemingly collective blindness and stark handicap to see through the veil of what's unfolding is definitely by choice.
Isaac Manford
Isaac Manford Hace 9 días
They don’t separate the art from the person when they get paid
Jake Miller
Jake Miller Hace 9 días
"Ebro takes sexual assault very seriously"; so i think his opinion is pretty obvious.
Richie Pickett
Richie Pickett Hace 9 días
I would love to see each of these djs put their life on blast... im talkin bout us im talkin bout me? Sorry but u didnt say a word u lol
blahblahblah Hace 9 días
All ya'll that wanna separate the man from the art: vote for Trump! Reelect him! His personal life has nothing to do with his job, right? It's interesting how ya'll pick and choose when to separate someone from their job! I bet if your favorite non black entertainer said or did something racist you'd stop supporting them...
Debra Garner
Debra Garner Hace 9 días
Come on Ebro, men always thought of their cars as a sexy woman! Plus all that sex talk you were doing even if the woman were older! Just say what R Kelly is /was doing is just Wrong! Now everybody picking their way Out!
Tas J
Tas J Hace 10 días
R will be R, I love the music not the man. Ain’t gonna change me
Chase Aflu
Chase Aflu Hace 10 días
sign'a the times, every bit of confusion on the dichotomy between bad person and good artist
Pravoizavlijesvijeta Hace 10 días
I hope black people remember this and cosby and many other black famous people that got a pass for a very long time, for the next time when a black artist gets convicted. remember this and mj, cosby, rkelly, oj etc. to not pull the race card and make it a race thing.
Da Ha
Da Ha Hace 10 días
How about doing the same documentary on the Catholic church and all of the children molested by priests? Why have we never had this discussion with the same intensity? And why were the charges dismissed against Harvey Weinstein for doing worse than what R. Kelly is accused of and no one is making a single sound about it? 🤔I believe the sexual misconduct is systematic within the entertainment industry and if everyone comes forward to expose all the people involved, we would no longer have an entertainment industry because everyone will be in jail.😂🤣
cm4arod1 Hace 10 días
This crew is lethargic and boring. No chemistry in personalities.
Joe Young
Joe Young Hace 10 días
Hugh Heffner recruited straight from highschool too. and wasn't Elvis wife in her 15 year of Life when they married. this land exploits young women in highschool with short volleyball shorts, cheerleading skirts, teen movies for years, track spanks pulled up over cheeks... i mean the line gets blurred from aroun 16 yeats on. and they ate not going backwards. neither does this Gov. have a problem handing out Life sentences calling them adults when the system stands to benefit. forcing is one thing, a free minded choice is another.
eace Hace 10 días
These hoes aint loyal
Vegan Locs
Vegan Locs Hace 10 días
Ebro y’all been talking about R. Kelly being trash, Trash in what way ? I know you’re not talking about his music! So what are you talking about? And for Laura Styles you calling his song you remind me of my Jeep is weird, just because you don’t understand or comprehend metaphors doesn’t make music weird.
usingbothsidesofmybrain 1
Blk privlege
Master mind money
Master mind money Hace 10 días
Hey Ebro I heard you got in the game from let R Kelly. Is that facts big facts
brandon jackson
brandon jackson Hace 10 días
#ebrolookslikepolice #ebroispolice
Just Dion
Just Dion Hace 10 días
Surviving R Kelly Public Interview on my Channel
quarieb muhammad
quarieb muhammad Hace 10 días
Separate the art from the individual? But doesn't life imitate art? IJS
BeastySteven200 lol
BeastySteven200 lol Hace 10 días
i am so depressed for these woman victims being a recovering person of all kinds of horrors we have to protect young girls!
BeastySteven200 lol
BeastySteven200 lol Hace 10 días
now im crying because its a huge fn deal no grown man hangs out in a mcdonalds likr this also schools of children those are the two red flags right there! common sense people
Dbow H
Dbow H Hace 10 días
His net worth has been adjusted from $150,000.000 to $1,000.000 strange that
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